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CareFirst Online Insurance Reviews

Company Name: Carefirst
Website: individual.carefirst.com
1.2 
Overall average rating of 1.2 out of 5, and the percentage of positive recommendations 0 %
My daughter cancelled her coverage with CareFirst and is now out of the country on a humanitarian mission. CareFirst mistakenly sent a bill for additional coverage which I paid erroneously. Now, this complaint site appears to be the only recourse for me. The 'contact phone' asks me to call a number on the reverse side of her statement, but there is no number listed. The website gives an optional phone number for people with coverage, but the answering machine says it is for new customers only, and then hangs up.
We started credentialing our new office in late October. After several glitches, we were told we'd be able to start billing 1/4/14 (we opened 1/2/2014). Our claims have all been rejected. Nobody at CareFirst can tell us what's wrong. I've contacted our billing clearinghouse, and after investigating, they said it was almost certainly CareFirst issue. I have talked to my CareDirst Provider Representative and a contracting specialist, who both told that our information should have all been filed, and told me to call the Help desk. Every time I've called (7 times now), I am on hold for 45 minutes before I give up in disgust. We have $18,000 worth of claims sitting around, not getting paid. All our other insurers are online. It's impossible to get any answers. There is no "supervisor" that can help us; I can't find anybody online to help me. We are a small, two-provider office, and we cannot afford not to get paid while CareFirst puts me on hold. CareFirst is without a doubt the worst insurer that I have to deal with, and that includes the Medicaids that we have. Their phone system is positively Byzantine, customer reps are often rude, and it's never clear whether you've selected the right option on the phone tree. Also - their fee schedule is terrible; even most of the Maryland Medicaids pay better than they do. This is a travesty, because they have a real grip on the Maryland area - they are our biggest insurer next to Medicare.
My elderly mother was served a civil action by Carefirst. Due to a fall resulting in a fractured spine compounded by dementia it took several months to find out what insurance mother has. By the time we found out from her local pharmacy a massive bill accumulated and payment was to have been made to settle the debt. Looks like only a part of the bill was settled since Carefirst would not cover her pharmacy expenses from the onset of the accident. Was told they have a policy of only going back a limited time to honor back claims. Carefirst does not communicate, takes little notice of the difficulty in trying to manage an aging parent's affairs during a confusing and delicate time and it's time the regulators put them out of business. I have no claim number to reference only a docket number from the civil action against my Mother.
I was covered by CareFirst as an employee of TEKsystems, a subsidiary of the Allegis Group. The insurance policy stated 100% coverage for urgent care. However, CareFirst denied payment for a urgent care visit. I contacted a health insurance advocate that stated I was indeed covered and they tried for 3 months to get a payment from CareFirst. However, CareFirst continued to deny payment. The stated reason was that they only cover urgent care from a doctor's office (which was never stated in their website or insurance agreement).
This is one of dozens of problems I have had with CareFirst BlueCross of Maryland Federal Employee Plan. I wanted to go to a local urgent care facility about a persistent cough (because I was out sick and PPP is closer to work, this was closer to home). I called facility and asked if they took my plan. Yes, $30 co-pays. Three weeks later (after I had returned to the same facility for a follow-up visit), I received a bill in the mail for $100. Turns out FEP Blue has changed their plan and no longer covers urgent care. This is their game. You literally need to scan and memorize your policy every year, then call them ahead of time to make absolutely sure. At this point, FEP Blue is a discount program, not an insurance plan.
I have done everything as I was supposed to do it, by deadlines and according to everyone's rules and here I am paying $489 a month and no health plan and I need a doctor's appointment before I have irreparable damage to my foot. It's been over 30 days of emails and calls and emails and calls to both CareFirst and Maryland Health Exchange with no resolution. I applied on the Maryland Health Exchange for the silver plan under CareFirst, yet CareFirst denies receiving the plan. Well, I posted the copy of the plan acceptance on the email to CareFirst (I had a plan of theirs outside the Maryland plan so I was able to email through that account and upload documents). So - they have my payment and documentation of the plan I chose and they won't give it to me. Can someone help me with this? I need to see a doctor and can't afford to pay both for care and the exorbitant insurance costs! They have been making money from me for many years with very few appointments and now that I need to see the doctor, they can't seem to acknowledge the plan I have. H-E-L-P.
The CareFirst insurance was going to cancel my insurance because I was past due for only 0.03 cents. I am very upset and depressed. How can a insurance do this to people that is so sad? No wonder people commit suicide because of the health insurance. Please do something about. Where can I sent a copy of the letter that CareFirst insurance send me? I want consumer report to take this matter seriously. Thank you.
I have a Medicare supplemental plan for my wife and getting them to auto draft the payments correctly has become a real joke. Since the middle of 2013, I have made 8-10 calls to get them to auto draft the premiums. Every time I call them, they say it will be taken out the next month. I have them take the payment while I am on the phone with them (after an hour on hold) and they have no problem. The next month rolls around and still no auto draft taken. I go through the same thing over and over. Then they got it working for two months. Now it is back to the same problem and I got a letter saying there was an account update at my bank and I should call the bank for information. I called the bank and CareFirst had inverted the first 3 numbers of my account. Here I go again I call and wait to talk to CareFirst just to be told the computers had lost some of the account information and I would have to re-enter it which I did and double checked it and was told to wait till the 9th of Mar. to see if it is taken out. Well, here it is the 10th and nothing has been taken out once again and was told they would monitor it and send me an email. Still Nothing!!!! OH by the way, they know how to send you cancellation notice even though it is their fault!!!!
They didn't pay 100% of a routine physical. Didn't pay another claim for preventative service. I've had to pay out of pocket twice as they claim the Dr didn't code it right. They are just ripping off customers... I would not recommend them and will file a complaint with the organization that I work. I hope they will look for a better service as I pay quite a bit of $$ for insurance and then have to take time off of work to try to get claims covered by being on the phone with the Dr. and insurance company getting the run around. What a lousy experience for a hard working, healthy, and paying customer. CareFirst is a JOKE!!!
I have health coverage through CareFirst and prior to getting dental coverage I was pretty unhappy with all aspects of their business so I'm not sure why I thought it would be a good idea to get dental coverage through them. First off they refuse to let you fill any forms out online. Whether you are waiting for an approval of coverage or they need to you fill out forms you must do all communication via USPS. So let's say you need insurance ASAP. Too bad. You must download the pdf, print it out, then mail it to them. Then once they receive it, you must wait anywhere from 14 to 28 days to get a response from them. It took me 9 phone calls and 2 months of waiting to get coverage. They actually told me on the phone that they "don't have email" so that is why I couldn't just email the completed form to them.Next, I got medical coverage in October as I was eligible to enroll because of loss of benefits from a prior employer. In January I got a letter saying that the rate I was approved for was only good for 2014 so my monthly rate would be increasing from $129 a month to $159 a month. If I wanted to change my plan so that I could get a better rate I had to print out a cancellation form, fill it out and mail it to them and wait several weeks for it to go through them and only then could I RE-ENROLL with CareFirst again.Even though they had all of my information and I still had a plan with them I had to start the entire process over just so I could get coverage and it ultimately left me without coverage for another two months. I couldn't enroll for an online profile until I called in and had them manually delete my old profile that I could no longer access because I had applied for a cancellation. All just because they never told me that my rate would increase significantly after only 3 months. Next I got dental coverage and once again it was a crazy long process. I had to print out forms, mail them in and wait once again for a response. When I did finally get a response I was actually shocked to see how low the cost was for coverage. $75 for three months of coverage. "Great!" I thought. So I paid three months ahead and thought it would be perfect. On July 28th I logged on to the website to pay my medical coverage premium before I left town for three weeks. I paid my medical bill and then I noticed on the bill tab there was a new amount for the dental plan for $20.32. It didn't say what it was for but I assumed it was an amount owed for a service or something. The strange thing was that I couldn't make a payment towards the amount. Usually there is a "PAY NOW" button underneath the bill that allows you to make a payment but in this instance there was nothing.So I figured it was an upcoming payment for the next month that it was too early to pay. Nope, when I came back in town on the 21st of August I got an email from CareFirst that same day saying that they had given me 25 days to pay my new "premium increase of $20.32" and since I didn't make my payment that my dental coverage had been terminated effective immediately. I called them and they told me there was nothing I could do to get my coverage reinstated and that in order to get coverage again I could "RE-ENROLL IN 12 MONTHS." I explained to them that I couldn't pay the amount online and that I still couldn't pay the amount because the option was not available. I asked if I could just pay the amount over the phone with them but that wasn't a possibility because "their system wasn't set up for that" and I would "have to wait 7-21 days to receive a final bill in the mail" for $20.32. Then I could mail them a check.I have yet to receive a bill and I'm sure when I do they will have added some sort of late fee on there too even though I have never even had the option to pay it. Even now when I get on the Carefirst website it still gives me no option to pay this. It's crazy and makes no sense. I did a little research and found out just how terrible they are. I wish I had done that before I got involved with them. I called a few dentist offices and asked them which insurances they had the best experience with. They recommended Delta Dental and Metlife.I called Delta and it was pretty obvious right away that they were a different type of company. I called and they picked up the phone immediately. They helped me with exactly what I wanted and connected me with a client broker directly who gave me her direct line to talk. She sent me an email within a few minutes of talking to her with a link to all the plans she recommended for me. I picked a plan, filled everything out online, paid for the coverage and she called me back to confirm everything. The whole process took less than 20 minutes and I only had to dial one phone number. I will never ever recommend CareFirst to anyone and I can't wait to cancel my medical coverage with them and get it through a worthy provider. What a waste of time they have been. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
This is an ongoing complaint with CareFirst. Payment been made, not posting payment and terminating policy without the consumer knowing. Back in January 2014 I made a payment to CareFirst and they cashed the checked as always but not see the money or post the money to the account. The consumer have to be calling them and they are so quick to cancel the policy for nonpayment meanwhile they have cash your check, and then don't posting the payment. Three times with CareFirst and they have the nerve to call and ask how is their service. I have nothing but pain from CareFirst with this new service they are providing, with some employee that have no common sense at all. I know God gave us common sense but one employee in particular did not use hers at all. Just sit on her ass and providing trash information on the phone. But it took just one person who is using her common sense to find what was missing which was the money I was calling for about in a different account, that CareFirst refuse to remove from the account that is causing confusion all time. I will like CareFirst to get a big fine from the government for misconduct and bad practice of service. Someone need to listen to the consumer.
I have paid my premiums on time for 9 months through my HSA. In August they cashed my check and cancelled my account due to "not paying my premium". Three months later and after sending them my cancelled check, continuing to pay my premium, and calling them 18 times, they still have not resolved the issue and all of my claims come back saying I have no insurance. They assured me it will be reinstated and retroactive, but that was 6 weeks ago and still nothing. I am paying out of pocket for all prescriptions and doctors visits that cannot wait until CareFirst fixes their mistake. They said at the latest it would be resolved 8 days ago and they would call. I have received no such resolution or call. Get to call them now and waste yet another 1-2 hours getting the run around.
Today I looked into my mailbox to see a small envelope with my name (first and middle, not my last name which struck odd for me) and in the most horrible, almost childlike, handwriting. No return address except for a stamp and "Capital District 200, 208" and underneath the date - "14 Jul 2015 FMSL" either stamped or typed on. I opened it up and a folded up check is inside for an amount of $3,050.00 Correctly written out is my full name (last name included as well) and the signature is exactly similar to the handwriting on the envelope yet unable to read the name. Both my boyfriend and research the company for red flags of scams or anything negative and nothing particularly strange popped up. I do have Blue Cross Blue Shield but because I'm not 26, I'm still under the insurance of my parents. I don't do anything in terms of dealing with it except for carrying my cards around and giving them to health providers when asked for them.I've called numbers provided on the website to talk to someone yet, not successful. I've asked my local bank to look over the check and confirm that this is a legitimate check and they said it was. However they were not able to call and check to make sure it was not fraudulent or of sorts due to their terms of being a local bank dealing with local and customer only situations. I live in Auburn, AL and only have a Columbus, Georgia bank that I make a monthly trip to which also happens to be a local only bank. The check is Wells Fargo and I haven't been there to get inquiry from them yet but I'm seeking out any reviews through here if anyone knows or gone through my same experience. I'm frightened to deposit or do anything with the check in case of it being a scam or fraud. Any help would be great!
I pay my bills using automated Bill Pays services. Jan. 2016 a shortage of nearly $1000 missing from checking account. A review, found the culprit: CareFirst ACH $942.45 on 12/30 siphoned from my account while on Holiday. HAPPY NEW YEAR Care-Less-First! Customer service went to 3 different supervisors who said "Highly irregular. Appears to be fraud, they never take money out like this. First time. We need to investigate." After 5 hrs of phone work the final word from "Ernest" - "Look your bank allowed us to take the money out so we did." How many subscribers to CareFirst would like an extra $1000 pulled during Holidays? Compounding matters were my voluntary payments of $330 on 12/17, $300 on 12/23 and $300 on 1/8. So much for pay it ahead! Caution: If you have an automated bill pays set up with CareFirst think of a Hoover Vacuum on the receiving end of your Electronic Payments!
I cancelled the application process on 3/2/18 and received a cancellation statement in my email and was told I would not be charged for the insurance. Yet YESTERDAY they charged me $186.24 for insurance I don't have!!! Not once, but 3 times!!! That's over $550.00!!! I want my money back!!
My daughter is under 19 and she is supposed to be covered under her medical policy for dental. I have only every had 1 claim done correctly. CareFirst dropped her from coverage and no one could explain why. I finally was able to get her back under dental but since then the problem is I have to send the claim forms via certified mail (costing me more money) to some PO box which then takes them over six months to do anything with. By then I have already been back for the next 6mth check up. Why does it take so long to process a claim? They just raised my daughter's health insurance premium to almost $300 per month unless I want a plan that pays for nothing until you reach your 2500 deductible.Why have health insurance if you have to pay the premium and pay the total doctor bill every time you might have to go to the doctor. Obamacare has done nothing but raise the cost of premiums for everyone and the out of pocket. I see why people take the tax penalty. I will now be paying close to $600 per month for my daughter and myself. Guess it is time to time to find another job just so I can pay that or get a lower premium and come up with 200 dollars every time my child gets sick and I have to take her to the doctor. Rip off artists... All insurance companies.
This is an HMO Advantage plan, which makes the entire process very simple. Most doctors are in the directory. There are no claims to be submitted. Referrals are necessary, but they are processed quickly, and can be processed even faster in case of an emergency. Vision and dental plans are automatically included.
I took Carefirst insurance Bronze plan and the policy ends by Dec 31st, 2014. For 2015 I applied for new Carefirst Platinum insurance. On Dec 31st, 2014 I called the Carefirst to cancel my old Bronze plan because I took the Platinum plan, they said give me in writing and fax it to their office. I did & I have proof for that. I called on Jan 21st to know the status, they said they did't receive the fax. They asked me to send it again not in writing, fill the cancellation form. I did and sent them fax. Called couple of days later they said they received it, but to process it will take time and asked me to call after a week. Called after a week, they said to cancel my policy it will take 30 days and I am responsible for it. I felt she don't know how to cancel my insurance she just given some random number. Immediately I called another representative asking to cancel my policy, she replied I have to fill up cancellation form and send their office to cancel, I told her I did couple of times and requested through online email after logging into my account, she said she didn't see any document to cancel my policy. I asked her to check my previous call note details, then she said yeah I am seeing now. She repeated previous call notes again. What you will do if you are in my place? Every month money deducting from my account. I appreciate if any body give me some advice. Thanks in advance.
For the second time in as many invoice periods, I NEVER received my DENTAL invoice by mail or email, but did get a dunning notice (no it didn't go to my spam folder). And yes I went online to pay them. I spent 1/2 hour of my dwindling life trying to get someone to hear me. If this affects my credit in any way, lawyers will be involved! It's open enrollment and there is no chance I use them again. Oh, I do get my MEDICAL invoices from them just fine! CareFirst, just doesn't care...
Worst company to deal with EVER! I just switched from my companies CareFirst Health Insurance to a private health insurance plan within CareFirst. This switch should have been easy as it was entirely within the same network. Being 6 months pregnant and switching out of open enrollment the MD Health Connection gave me a pass and I filed in September for an October 1 start date. My bill was due By October 7. Their payment system was down October 1-6 and could not take any payments. On October 7 they called me saying their system was up and they could take a payment. They took my money, it came out of my account on October 7 and the online bill shows that I paid on October 7.Needless to say it is November 3 AND THEY HAVE NOT ACTIVATED MY ACCOUNT! I have called at least 2-3 times a week and every time I call they say they are "escalating my account to be activated" or "we are doing an emergency escalation to fix your problem." I paid for the month of October and have received no Insurance. The past two weeks they will activate the same day apologizing profusely and then immediately deactivate my account the next day!Did I mention I am 6 months pregnant and to make matters even worse as of last week I have pretty serious bronchitis and can not see a doctor because I don't have an active insurance plan. I can't pay for November because they haven't given me a bill. Needless to say, I am pissed, they are horrible and I'm going to switch BUT NOT BEFORE I GET MY MONEY BACK!
To follow up on my comment from 12/02/2012 - The manager Steve ** contacted me over the phone. He was extremely helpful and polite. Steve was the only person who was listening to my concerns and he took his time to fix the computer problem (which was not my problem to begin with). I am dissatisfied with the company service overall. I cannot complain about Mr. ** as he was helpful unlike Heather and other people who had no human touch and kept telling me “the computer says...” Thank you, Steve.
Dealing with CareFirst insurance has been incredibly frustrating. I used their email service to ask how to cancel my plan because I was moving out of the country. It took 8 days for a response. Before their email response, I called and was told I need to mail or fax the cancellation form. No problem. I filled out the form and sent it in. Now overseas, I have called and emailed several times to follow up on the cancellation form. They don't know where it is. The only help they can give me is to give me instructions on how to send the cancellation form. Thanks, Carefirst!My experience is never email them. It takes days to get a response. I emailed them again asking if they received my cancellation form only to receive another email telling me how to cancel. I'm not entirely sure anyone even reads those emails. I sent another emailing expressing that and finally got a response that in fact they do not have my form and instructions on how to fill out the form I already sent a month previous. They're really good at providing cancellation instructions. That's why they get 1 star.If you need to cancel your plan, by god, find yourself a fax machine because mailing it is apparently ineffective. It takes 10 business days for them to even tell you if they have received your letter. Make sure when you send in the cancellation form that you also add your proof of new coverage. The woman I spoke to on the phone said that may be the reason that my form was not processed. But who really knows? It's a pretty archaic system. I used Blue Shield while living in California and when I moved to Maryland I was able to cancel with no problems.
The insurance was decent enough and relatively cheap, but cancelling was a nightmare. It took an entire two months and calls to no less than four separate people in order to get my cancellation processed. While they did eventually refund me, I got a call weeks later from one of the people I spoke to months prior - just now telling me how to start the cancellation process. This company obviously has no internal structure or management, and it's bloody amazing the entire management staff hasn't somehow starved to death due to incompetency. Avoid at all costs unless you absolutely cannot afford anything else.
CFBCBS has not been helpful in resolving the issue of claims already paid for which they are now requesting payment. I was told that 30 claims have been reviewed and that copies of the claims in addition to the explanation as to why the insurance company isn't paying the claims would be sent to me over 2 months ago and I have received nothing to date and was told the claims went to the wrong address. However, providers are already contacting me concerning monies I owe for 2-year old claims. Why wasn't I given notice?
This HMO is deceptive. They do not have providers for covered conditions. If they require you to use a provider in network and they do not have a provider for a covered condition this means that the medical condition is effectively not covered. I live in the Washington DC metro area. When looking for a specialist they have NO providers in a 30 mile radius. NO providers = NO COVERAGE. Period! If they do not have providers in the Nation's Capital I am sure this is an issue elsewhere as well. There is no excuse for them to not have several choices for providers in every single category of their coverage in a densely populated urban area like this. They should be required to publish every specialist or area that they do not have providers for because there is no provision to go out of network. Something like "Since we do not have in network doctors for these conditions you will not be covered if you get/have the following..." If a plan has no out of network options, then it cannot claim to provide coverage for items that it does not have an in network provider for. In order to truly know what your coverage is you need to research the providers' list for each and every POTENTIAL condition to see if they have a specialist for that. If there is no provider in their network THERE IS NO COVERAGE FOR THAT ITEM.
I been calling for the past few days to schedule my appointments. On the first day I waited an hour and still no one picked up. I had to cancel my next day appointment. On the second day I waited for 45 minutes. I'm handicapped.
I need regular blood draws once per month to check my medicine levels. If the levels are too low or too high, I will die. BCBS has refused to cover any blood draws because I have an out-of-state specialist who writes the order, even though I get the blood drawn and processed by a lab that is in network. Who writes the order has NO bearing on the blood draw cost, but BCBS is using it as an excuse to not cover regular blood labs. My doctor has reached out over a dozen times to submit prior authorizations but BCBS continues to deny them without explanation, even though they have accepted them before. BCBS does not care about customers with high needs; the insurance company is better off if I die. That is very clear.
In April I called CareFirst more than once, in total more than 4 times to ask the same question with different representative. All told me the same answer. I asked if my insurance cover psychologist visits and they told me only in-network once. I also asked them if there is a max. number of visits per year and they said no. I can visit my psychologist as often as I like. After several weeks of search I found a few that is not too far from me and they are in network. I am the type that don't trust just one person giving me information so I called numerous time asking the same question. Only recently I found out that CareFirst refuse to pay because they stated that I am not cover... I wouldn't have seen one if it isn't cover... They give out wrong information consistently more than 3 times by all different representatives... Now I am stuck with a super huge bill??? This sound like I am not the first person they done this to. After reading some of their reviews, other insured say the same thing...
Individual deductible is 16% of my annual income and combined family deductible is 32%. No benefits are realized until annual deductible is met, which amounts to having to pay provider's full rate (minus insurance "discount"), so the stated $50 office call runs anywhere from $75-$100, until deductible is met, which at the rate set, it won't. Further, premiums don't count toward deductible (contrary to my experience with other legitimate insurance). Further yet, the so-called prescription drug benefit is non-existent. According to the carrier's own literature, prescriptions are supposed to be covered at $10/45/60. Yet my FORMULARY asthma medication costs me over $200 retail. When asked why my prescription isn't $10 per fill, I'm told that coverage doesn't go into effect until I meet my individual deductible. So, in effect, I pay around $780/month for a discount plan. Run as far as you can from this plan. You're probably better off going to an exchange under the UN-affordable Care Act (Obamacare). Looking to start/join a class-action lawsuit against BC/BS CareFirst for insurance fraud and file criminal complaint with my state's insurance regulator.
I had private health coverage with care first and auto payment was set up for that for years, end of 2018 I had to make changes to my insurance through Maryland health connection but I selected the same plan with care first, the only difference is my daughter was removed from the plan. I received welcome letter from them and another letter notifying me that my policy has changed from the first one to the second one and they are stating the new amount due. I was shocked when I checked my bank account online to see four transactions by care first, two for medical and two for dental for both the old policy and the new policy. I called them to fix this mistake and to find out why all these double charges. They were so rude and informed it's too late to fix this issue and they can't refund me the old policy payment that was charged by mistake. I'm looking for new provider now and I don't recommend this scam company to anyone.
Do not pay anything if you are Medical Medicare patients. It is to be written off. If you are paying for this insurance get off. Go to another insurance you want and have them get you away from these crooks. Do not allow to pay then be taken for your monies. It defeats the purpose of having coverage here in USA. You need a better insurance if they are billing you and not submitting the proper Authorization form to be seen by a true network provider. Read your manuals. Contact your insurance provider within network dr's.Do not go to any facility they send you to. I took my mom to a facility thinking they were contracted with her CareFirst and they were not. They only seen SeaSide Adult patients. Go figure. I never heard of this one and I have my experience with billing. These Dr's break off cause of poor monies being funded by the state/government. Dr's are greedy and want, want, want monies daily. IPA's are not good. Find one facility/group that pays well and dr's are there for the patient not your money. Pay for a Dr that truly diagnosis you and truly cares. Pay what you can afford not what dr's are overcharging and billing depts are falsely lying to you about what you are resp for.
I submitted a claim for reimbursement three times via the BCBS web site. I called to confirm their receipt and was told that they could not confirm receipt until the claims had been processed. I then resubmitted my claim via fax directly to a BCBS manager who told me that it would be sent to the correct department for processing. Well, how difficult can this be? Apparently, quite difficult as it took at least three weeks just to be received. It seems that they could not make up their minds as to who it should be processed by. I call nearly everyday and never get the same story. I've requested a single point of contact in an attempt to get them to be more responsible. I guess this isn't possible as they never complied with my request. It has now been two months since I first filed my claim and I still haven't been paid. My claim had about thirty line items but was for the same two medications and same diagnosis yet it appears to be far too complicated for them to process. They have now requested additional information as a delay tactic. Why it has taken two months to do so I have no idea.
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